The Four Color Media Monitor

I decided to look around at what message boards dedicated to discussion of comicdom there are on the web, and of course there are still some, long after sites like Silver Bullet Comics have vanished, and see how people talk about how the old and new are written. And if the following example from Classic Comics Forum is any indication, sadly, there are still only so many misguided souls out there who vehemently refuse to recognize the distinctions between fiction and real life, and don't recognize that a fictional character's not at fault for how he/she has been written, or even illustrated, by the writers/artists. Here, we have a sad example of somebody ragging on Jean Loring from the Silver Age Atom as though she were a real person on January 18, 2025, and the 5th line is particularly laughable as it's pathetic:

Did anyone actually ever like Jean Loring?

Because i didn't.

Even before the whole cheating on him deal…

…in 1983’s Sword of The Atom #1 (and everything that came after), i honestly never cared for the character.

She wasn’t (imo) on the same level as Lois Lane, Sue Dibney, Iris Allen, or even Steve Trevor in terms of supporting the hero, or just being likable, really.

In a time when it was standard operating procedure for the hero to have a love interest, Ray’s relationship w. Jean always seemed forced to me even as a kid.

Ahem. By that logic, virtually every hero's relationship of the times with the fairer sex was forced, even Spider-Man's and Captain America's with their lady fairs. So instead of delivering the criticism to the doorstep of writer Gardner Fox, and artist Gil Kane, whoever began that thread "projected" onto their creations, all without the slightest consideration that there are real life contributors to DC/Marvel who worked overtime to develop all these characters and whatever personality traits they might've had, and their livelihoods practically depended on it. Furthermore, it sounds like the poster is saying that, because Jean "wasn't on the same level" as the other aforementioned ladies like Lois, and was a cast member in what may be considered a "minor" book and star character, that too, alone, literally makes her "inferior". And the poster also obscures that even Lois was portrayed as a jerk during the Silver Age, quite possibly even more, yet it's Jean who takes the brunt because her minor status makes her the easy target. One of the respondents said:

I didn't read enough to have an opinion. But I HATED what they did to her in Identity Crisis.

Thank goodness we're in agreement on the IC topic. And a vital point can be made that, instead of developing an improved personality or anything more palatable for Jean, they went the classically cheap, shoddy route and made a monster of her. When in whatever stories I read where she appeared, she was far from being written as obnoxious or vulgar, and if she was depicted as law abiding and believing in civilized values, isn't that at least a silver lining? Here's another response:

Jean was a self-assured, very competent criminal attorney who, given the cultural and artistic expectations of the time, was almost a feminist. She was dedicated to her profession, but also by the desire to prove herself in what was obviously a man's world. Ray Palmer, meanwhile, wanted desperately to marry Jean and di[d] all he could as the Atom to help her solve crimes, etc. If their relationship seemed forced in the original series, it may have been because to a certain extent Jean and Ray were switching roles.

It was quite the opposite of what a reader might have expected. Jean and Shierra Hall were good friends to and for each other, both bright, brave women who were forced to live within the now ridiculous standards of both the Silver Age and the America in which it took place.

Her cheating on Ray was just not in character. Might it have occurred as it does in "real life"? Well, sure, probably, but not without laying just a tad more groundwork than what happened in "Sword of the Atom." And what happened to her in the abomination that was "Identity Crisis?" Lurid shocks piled on ridiculous characterization piled on disrespect for what had gone before. Jean and Sue Dibny, both bright successful, strong women became just two more girls in refrigerators. Just no refrigerators in the JLA satellite.

I would argue that, while you may not agree with the notion of divorcing Ray and Jean - and a point can be made that the editorial staff involved was making use of easy examples for DCU cast members with which to carry out this direction - they at least provided the characters with some dignity, and in the Sword of the Atom Special where the divorce comes about, biographer Normal Brawler's book contains Jean's voluntary confession she screwed up. Does that not count as a positive detail on the part of the writer, Jan Strnad? Here's another:

She was annoying at times for sure, but so was Lois. I think if Atom was popular a little later in time so she wasn't always the 'girl lawyer' and fighting to be heard she would have been less annoying.

Agree 100% they did her wrong in Identity Crisis.

But again, let's remember it's the writer's fault, not the non-existant character's. This comment does allude, however, to the hypocrisy of implying Jean was "inferior" to Lois simply because Jean was more of a minor character as opposed to Lois being the co-star of a major, much more widely recognized character like Superman. "Recognizability" is not a reason to be so condescending, which the beginning message is guilty of doing. What should matter is the story merit, which the beginning post doesn't focus on. At least the topic starter thanked those who supported Jean. On which note, if she were depicted as an allusion to feminists of the times, the reason today's SJWs would despise her is because Fox depicted her as a woman who did want to have a child, something that's since become taboo among the more Orwellian leftists. Of course, if Jean and Sue were Black/Latina/Asian, the chances IC would've been published as it was would be far less, which only enforces the perception there's a certain segment of society that's always looking for easy targets, and when they see one isn't so easy to go after, they prey on another. As a result, white protagonists were the foremost cast members turned into scapegoats, but no matter the ethnic background of the victims, that's disgusting, and come to think of it, if the writers thought they could get away with it, even Black Lightning's ex-wife, Lynn Pierce, would've been subject to exactly the same horrific results as Sue and Jean were. Why, even Sapphire Stagg from Metamorpho's stories would've. Next, here's an earlier post from April 27, 2015, where Gambit is brought up:

I'm still reading The Age of Apocalypse: The Complete Epic, Volume Three. It's OK at times. I find Generation Next to be by far the best series. There was one chapter (not Generation Next) that had two of the worst "accent" characters talking with each other and I just about skipped those pages.

I'm also reading Showcase Presents: Wonder Woman, Volume Three, and I'm loving the Andru/Esposito art. And the Mouse Man appearances. I wish there were more of those! What I'm not loving are the "Wonder Family" Impossible Tales. There are too many of these.

The big question I'm dealing with now is: Who do I hate more? Gambit or Wonder Tot?

I'm going with Gambit. One of the worst characters ever.

No, it's the writing that's loathsome, not the character. If this poster said that was Gambit was "the worst written character ever", that would've made more sense logically. If anything is to be disliked, it's the scriptwriting by scribes like Scott Lobdell, if to name a notable example. How strange he doesn't come up in discussion in the above messages, if anywhere. Oh, and how did the characters get their accents, by the way? Don't they know the scriptwriter's at fault for that? Pathetic. And, here's a post from a thread on December 12, 2024, another where Gambit is spoken about:

I can cure you, folks. (£50 via PayPal)

I used to want complete runs of, say, Iron Man (one of my favourite Marvel characters growing up), but as I got older, I realised, do you really need EVERY issue? I don’t like Gambit, so if one issue was to feature an Iron Man/Gambit crossover, I could quite easily let that one slip by.

The completist mentality still exists in some form for me. I had to read every Peter David Hulk story (which I did, a mixture of Marvel Unlimited and physical copies) because I like how David handled the character, one arc aside. I’d like to read the complete runs of DC Comics’ Star Trek and Star Trek: TNG as I have enjoyed what I did read. But I’m trying not to be completist about everything. I used to be very, very pedantic about it.

Tsk tsk tsk. Again, even a fictional character like Gambit, supposed to be a reformed thief, is not at fault for what mistakes Scott Lobdell and maybe even Fabian Nicieza made over 30 years ago. It would be the fault of whoever would be writing even an Iron Man issue guest starring the Ragin' Cajun, and even the fault of the editors, if they wouldn't allow the writer to develop a personality more palatable for Remy LeBeau. Oh yes, even Wonder Tot from WW's Silver Age stories, is just a work of fiction, and if the whole approach doesn't appeal to you, that's one thing, but to say an infant-like character is the guilty party is just another shoddy substitute for logic and objectivity. Why, even science fiction animals like Krypto the Superdog aren't at fault, if it matters. Now, here's another thread about the Flash from February 24, 2025, and the victim of illogic this time, perhaps unsurprisingly, is Barry Allen:

My brother read The Flash in the mid- to late 1970s. I mostly read Marvel, but I read my brother’s comics just because they were in the house. I’ve never collected Flash comics, mostly because I think Barry Allen is kind of dull, but I have long had a certain affection for the rogues gallery.

My brother was not reading comics anymore by 1981, but I was, and I remember seeing the ads for the Trial of the Flash, and I probably flipped through a few issues at the drugstore. I seem to remember buying an issue from around #315 where Grodd was the villain. I can’t resist Grodd.

I’ve read a little bit about this era online, and I have long been kind of curious about how they sustained the storyline for such a long time. But not curious enough to actually seek out these comics or look to see if there’s ever been a reprint collection.

Well waddaya know, here's somebody else who fell into one of the worst traps of illogic in readership history, and instead of arguing he thought Cary Bates' writing was dull, he claims a fictional character is. And makes matters worse by implying villains are more worth celebrating. Even if the Flash's rogues were written more with a sense of honor than some other villains may have been, that's still no excuse. Most sickening is that what the person is saying there could also have been said about Spider-Man's rogues' gallery, and entirely possible Peter Parker could've been belittled too. That's right, let's not think it impossible. However, here, amazingly enough, is a message where the writer/artist do come up:

As I said elsewhere, Flash was a sporadic book for me, through the 70s. I generally liked the character and read the Bates/Novick stuff and Bates stories with other collaborators, up through the death of Iris and the apparent death of Prof Zoom (both recovered). It was a nice book to visit, now and again, but I never amassed a sustained run, apart from digital files of everything, in more recent years.

I had issue #300, my last pre-Crisis issue, which was marred by printing issues, in the copies I had (my original and a later replacement). Later Infantino, I find, depends greatly on his inker. I've seen bits and pieces that I liked, but a lot more I didn't. I liked the bulk of his Marvel output, especially when inked by Steve Leialoha. I had work that he did for Archiie/Red Circle (The Comet), Eclipse (The Heap back-up story, in Airboy) and Pied Piper/Innovation (Power Factor) and the results were not good. However, I thought he and Frank McLaughlin did a bang up job on the Danger Trail mini, from 1993, with a King Faraday adventure (one of Carmine's previous books). I suspect deadline and enthusiasm had a lot to do with how his later stuff worked, in conjunction with the inker and any health factors at play.

Here, the poster will earn points for acknowledging the existence of writers/artists like Cary Bates and Irv Novick, and the first issue of the Flash I read (230) was from around the Bronze Age, at the time the latter was the artist, much as the former was the writer. And a valid/reasonable argument could be made that likability depends on how the writer handles everything too. It sure is funny though, how Golden Age characters all but escape these kind of shoddy "my hero is better than yours" quarrels on these message boards. Just because by the Silver Age, they were no longer considered most relevant compared to their successors of the times, the message boarders will give the Golden Agers a pass up to a point, but not the Silver Agers? Weird, but lest we forget that, if so-called readers let the illogic of attacking fictional characters get the better of them, they can't be surprised if the end result of modern comics is bottom of the barrel in terms of story quality.

Someday, I may need to go post on boards like Classic Comics Forum in order to bring my arguments about why fictional characters aren't guilty of "boredom" directly to the people espousing the illogical rants, which they most likely wrote all for the sake of virtue-signaling. And why it's the writers/artists/editors who have to be recognized as the guilty party in all this mess. But if I do, will they listen? That's the sad question that only time can answer, so someday, we'll see how things turn out. For now, a terrible shame some people still stick with lack of logic in their dubious fandom.

Labels: Atom, dc comics, Flash, golden calf of villainy, Hawkman and Hawkgirl, history, marvel comics, misogyny and racism, Superman, women of dc, X-Men